DOUGHERTY: It's a little hard to hear. The microphones work and don't work. If you could scoot a little closer to that little sucker.

     RIDGEWAY: What's your name again?

     RUTHERFORD: David Rutherford.

     RIDGEWAY: And where are you from?

     RUTHERFORD: The bootheel. Cape Girardeau, south of Cape Gireaude area.

     RIDGEWAY: Okay.

     RUTHERFORD: And, I've been ongoing fight with the Child Support Enforcement Agency for going on three years now. My personal opinion is that they're basically professional extortionists. They use tactics to upset you and push you to the limit. I've had felony charges against me twice. Both times they were dropped. They have put liens on my property without notifying me, finding out later when I went to try to get a loan against a piece of property or something, they have a lien attached to it.

     DOUGHERTY: The lien on your property was......

     BENTLEY: They, being the Family Service people, you're saying?

     RUTHERFORD: Yes, Child Support Enforcement Agency. Here to lately, when they sent five deputy sheriffs, and two city police, to pick a piece of equipment of mine that was worth $125,000.
 
    DOUGHERTY: Because?

     RUTHERFORD: They say I owe back child support.

     DOUGHERTY: Of how much?

     RUTHERFORD: Of $13,000.

     DOUGHERTY: How much?

     RUTHERFORD: $13,000. There's a ten year period that's in the, you call it disagreement. She remarried for the third time and her and her husband wouldn't allow me visitation, and they said they wanted to raise my daughter. They didn't want no interference from me and my family, and no child support, and, after paying child support for several years, and I have never been, my daughter is eight, be 18 next week, two weeks from now. I've never had a court ordered visitation.
 
    DOUGHERTY: And, represents two questions, because two just immediately occurred. You have a court order enforced.

     RUTHERFORD: Yes.

     DOUGHERTY: And there was a visitation, something or other in that divorce?

     RUTHERFORD: Right. When I threatened her with court action, she said that she would file sexual child abuse charges against me if I tried that.

     KASTEN: You have one daughter?

     RUTHERFORD: Yes, Ma'am. And, my family and my therapist, and lawyer, and everybody told me, this woman is vicious. She's going to hurt you. She's going to hurt your family, and, basically, the consensus was, maybe she would eventually grow out of this stage and allow me to see my daughter, but she never did, and it really got - she married a friend of mine, not a real close friend, but a person I knew and went to the same church with, and they didn't want no money from me, and they wanted to raise my child, which I never knew why until after they got divorced. He told me that she told him that I used to beat and abuse my daughter, and that's why they didn't want me around.

     DOUGHERTY: So, what I'm hearing is that you didn't get any visitation and, therefore, you stopped paying child support?

     RUTHERFORD: Yes. Yes, Sir.

     DOUGHERTY: But you didn't go to the court to do that?

     RUTHERFORD: Well, that's the question everybody likes to bring up, and what....

     DOUGHERTY: The only reason I'm bringing it up was you were court ordered to pay that.

     RUTHERFORD: Right, and the reason I never went back to the court system was, you know, if I ever had an opening to get to know my daughter, I didn't want her mom to be able to throw it up and say, well, you know, your dad took me back to court to have your child support stopped, so he wouldn't have to take care of you. I didn't think that was sending the right message to my daughter, and she tried to adopt my daughter three times, and I wouldn't allow it, because I told her I didn't think the marriage - I didn't think she was going to stay married. She had already been divorced twice, and  I was just, basically, sitting back there, looking in, waiting for a chance to become part of my daughter's life, which it never became about, until she got caught sleeping around and he kicked her out of the house, divorced her, and this whole thing, the Child Support Enforcement coincides with her last divorce. We know she needed some walking money, and you know, hey, I can't blame her. All she's got to do is make a call. That's all it takes. They don't ask for no proof. They don't ask for anything, just make that call and, you know, they're there. They're on you. They've never heard my story. They don't know that my child's name, birth certificate was changed. She's been enrolled in school, her whole life, under another man's name. Her social security card was forged. Her baptismal record, at the church I go to, it states there that I testified this is my child. And, they've, like I said, they've had two felony child support cases against me, which both have been dropped, and, right now, I have a court order to keep the Child Support Enforcement Agency to leave me alone until it gets to court, like I've always wanted. You know, all I want is my day in court that I've never been able to get.

     The minute that this came up, my attorney was getting the paperwork ready to get it into civil court to get a judgement from a judge on it, and they filed felony charges against me. I've been fighting these felony charges for two and a half years now. I've spent everything I've got. That's what they want.

     DOUGHERTY: The felony child support because it's over $5,000.

     RUTHERFORD: Yes, and you know what really - I haven't mentioned this yet. They got me in there a week before I asked for a jury trial, and they got me in there and they wanted to make a deal with the prosecutor and offered several deals before court, and I told my attorney I was settling for no deal. I wanted it taken care of, and when we got in there, they offered me a deal, and my attorney said, well, you know, that deal's $15,000 less than it's going to cost you to go to trial, and, they were going to put me on probation, and pay payments out, like $5,000 is what they were asking for, over a two year period, and I said, well, I didn't feel like I did anything wrong, so I didn't want to be put on probation, but my wife had told, my ex-wife had told me that If I would give her the money she would put it in a college fund, so I told the prosecutor that I would be willing to give them a $5,000 lump sum payment, with no probation, and they drop the charges against me and leave alone, which they agreed to. Six months later they refiled felony charges against me again, and took me back to court, and offered me the same deal again.

     DOUGHERTY: What county was that, again? I'm sorry, what county were you in? I'm sorry.

     RUTHERFORD: Cape Girardeau. I mean, I have all the documentation with me. I have an eight count lawsuit against several organizations right here in the state of Missouri, right now. Child Support Enforcement is one of them.

     DOUGHERTY: If there's some other questions here. I just have one before I end here. If hindsight being God only knows what it is.....

     RUTHERFORD: Oh, yeah.

     DOUGHERTY: Do you figure you wouldn't be in this problem if at that point and time where they said, get lost, and you said, okay, and you stopped paying the child support without going to court? Do you feel that was probably the turning point, other than the fact that they, of the rest of the story.

     RUTHERFORD: Yeah, I mean, if I went to, you and ask the judge, they would have given me the thing immediately.

     DOUGHERTY: Back then?

     RUTHERFORD: Yeah. And, the only reason she's after me now, is because she wants, I mean she called me up one night and said, you know, I've got to talk to you real bad. It's about our daughter, Trisha, and I went up there and talked to her and she got me in the car with her, and all she wanted to do was, she wanted to know if she had my marriage ruined yet. She said, "I hear you're getting a divorce." Said, "no, I'm not." "Well, I figure after all the trouble I've caused you, you'll surely be getting a divorce by now." She's mean. She's vindictive.

     DOUGHERTY: Representative Smith? Representative Hollingsworth?

     HOLLINGSWORTH: I think just a couple quick questions, Mr. Rutherford. How old, you said your daughter is 18?

     RUTHERFORD: She'll be 18 at the end of this month.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: When did you get married?

     RUTHERFORD: ‘79.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: 1979.

     RUTHERFORD: Yes.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: You got divorced when?

     RUTHERFORD: 1981.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: So, it's a two-child marriage and your child was born during the marriage?

     RUTHERFORD: Yes.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: Okay, and you have never had any kind of visitation with this little girl?

     RUTHERFORD: No.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: Okay, so, with the initial divorce, you've also, I guess, been modified a couple of times, probably by Child Support Enforcement?

     RUTHERFORD: Do what now?

     HOLLINGSWORTH: Well, your amount of child support, has it increased over the years?

     RUTHERFORD: No.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: No, it's always been the same amount.

     RUTHERFORD: Well, the thing I didn't stress is, that for a 15-year period, you know, there was never a problem. The problem didn't arise until her last divorce.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: Why wasn't there a problem? She hadn't filed a claim?

     RUTHERFORD: Yes. She never filed a claim.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: You weren't seeing the child....

     RUTHERFORD: No.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: And you weren't paying support....

     RUTHERFORD: No.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: And she didn't file a claim for child support enforcement.

     RUTHERFORD: We had an agreement.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: So you really didn't have anything to do with the Division of Child Support Enforcement until probably in the last several years, when she went in and......

     RUTHERFORD: 1995, they put a lien on my house on January 1st, 1995, or January 3rd, is when her paperwork was filed. I got my first notice from Child Support Enforcement Agency that there was a problem in February, the middle part of February, is when I got my first notice, which they'd already attached a lien to my house.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: Does your former wife have other children?

     RUTHERFORD: Yes.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: How many?

     RUTHERFORD: Four.

     HOLLINGSWORTH: Okay. Thank you, very much.

     DOUGHERTY: Representative Kasten.

     KASTEN: Did you say that you - had you ever had visitation rights?

     RUTHERFORD: No. I mean, yes, I was ordered every other weekend and one week out of summer.

     KASTEN: And, you never had them? You never had a chance to visit your daughter, ever.

     RUTHERFORD: No.

     KASTEN: And, what reason did she have, did you say?

     RUTHERFORD: She would always be at the door with the mom. She  was with her mom, and they wouldn't let me see her.

     KASTEN: And, she threatened once that she would accuse you of abuse if you tried to see her daughter, is that the reason why?

     RUTHERFORD: Yes.

     KASTEN: But she never went to the court, any time to try and.....

     RUTHERFORD: No, The feeling of my family and, you know, we're close, and after she married this guy that we knew that went to the same church. He was a farm boy, growed up across the hollow from us. You know after she married this guy here and they wished that we would stay away, and let their family raise my daughter, we kind of thought that well, maybe that would be the best for my daughter, where at least she would have a stable, you know, household to live in, and everything. That is why she would fight me. The times that I tried to go get visitation, the last time that I really remember, she had my daughter crying when she was about three years old. She had her crying real bad, and she throwed her at me, and said, here, you want her, take her. I didn't catch her. She fell and hit the floor, and you know she cried. That was the last time that I ever tried to see her.

     KASTEN: Right, to try to protect your daughter. Thank you.

     RUTHERFORD: But, you know, I've spent all the money I had saved for my daughter. I spent all my retirement. I refinanced several things, and, my daughter has a ninth grade education, because she missed 53 days of her 10th grade of school. I couldn't do anything to keep her in school.

     KASTEN: Thank you.

     DOUGHERTY: Representative Ridgeway.

     RIDGEWAY: Just one question. Before, when you were talking to Representative Hollingsworth, you said that after your child was born, and the threats were issued that if you attempted to exercise your visitation rights, then you said you entered into an agreement with her, what, that you wouldn't try to push the issue of visitation if she wouldn't push of .....

     RUTHERFORD: No, that was not the agreement. The agreement was if she didn't want me to see my daughter, and she didn't want my support, I mean, I didn't have a choice in the matter saying, here, you keep my daughter, and don't make me pay support. You know, I would have rather, it would have been a lot easier on me and my family to have been able to see my daughter, and payments of child support.

     RIDGEWAY: How much was your child support?

     RUTHERFORD: At that time, in 1979, I think it was $155, plus keep insurance on my child.

     RIDGEWAY: And she never attempted to raise it or anything until 1995?

     RUTHERFORD: No, we hadn't had no contact in the last ten years, except for after they were married for about six months, she tried to adopt my daughter a couple of times and when I wouldn't allow it, that's when she, I guess, I never did know it until several years later, that she changed her name.

     RIDGEWAY: So, just for years, this arrangement that your ex-wife took......

     RUTHERFORD: Yeah, it was fine until she got divorced for the third time. I mean, everybody, Jackson is a small town. That's where I originally lived in. You know, everybody told me that you're in trouble. Your Ex is getting a divorce and she's after you.

     RIDGEWAY: Thank you.

     RUTHERFORD: Thank you.

     DOUGHERTY: Anyone else? Appreciate your sharing your story with us. Thank you, very much.

     RUTHERFORD: I'd like to have a minute or two more. You know what I know about the Child Enforcement Agency, every man up here right now, you're in jeopardy. Any woman can call in and file a complaint against you, and you're going to have to prove, you're going to have to prove that they are lying. I don't know if you all know that or not, but that is the way it's set up. That is the way it is set up. Anybody can call in. I could do mock one, right now. I have.

     KASTEN: Do what?

     RUTHERFORD: You can over at Child Support Enforcement Agency and I've had my wife do this, because I was curious just where would they stop. My wife has called them and told them that she wanted to file a complaint, that her Ex was not paying child support. No problem. I want to make sure that I can't get in trouble. I want to let you know that in advance that I have three children. I've never let their dad have visitation. I never wanted any money from him. I've had the kids out of state, and he's never seen them. They said, oh, that's no problem, come in. We'll help you get the money. And, I have these on tape. I mean, I learned real fast going through the court system that the more stuff you take, the easier it's going to be later, and, to me everybody I'm involved with has just been dishonest. They don't - all they're interested in, is the money, in any way they can get it. I mean, when you take somebody's real estate and put lien on it where you can't borrow the money to defend yourself, and another point I'd like to bring up, Don Elfrank is the technician. That's what they call them, technicians. I don't know what qualifications they have to have their job. My attorney, Kenneth McManaman, whether you know him or not, from Cape Girardeau, the day this was all taking place when they were seizing my piece of property, and I don't know if you all are aware of the law, because the judge wasn't until he looked, there is a statute against what they did. It's a law. There's a statute against it. My attorney called Child Support Enforcement Agency, and told them, you're breaking the law. If you proceed, you're breaking Missouri Statute, and her reply was, we don't care. We do not care.

     DOUGHERTY: Is that one on tape?

     RUTHERFORD: Huh.

     DOUGHERTY: Is that conversation on tape?

     RUTHERFORD: My attorney will testified to it.

     DOUGHERTY: Oh, okay.

     RUTHERFORD: That day that they came and took my property, me and my wife were there. You know, we were both upset. I had to lock myself in my truck to keep from doing something stupid, because I told them they were breaking the law, and, a matter of fact, I had them talked into it once. The deputy sheriff that came there knew me, and she said I'll let you get this straightened out. The prosecuting attorney said, you get out there and do the job you're paid to do. That's when they came back with five deputy sheriffs, two city police, a semi-wrecker, another wrecker, to move my wife's car, from in front of the property they were trying to take, right in the middle of town, at 11:30, during the day, you know, everybody is driving by. I had calls from all over the place, wanting to know what was going on? They drove $125,000 piece of equipment of mine off down the road, illegally.

     DOUGHERTY: That's the basis for your lawsuit, the one you mentioned earlier?

     RUTHERFORD: Yes. But, you know what? She had six free attorneys fighting this thing for the last two and a half years. I've had none. I'm fighting the state of Missouri, right now. I've had no free attorneys. My attorney just dropped, recently, six counts in lawsuit, because, basically, I don't have the money to pay to get them settled. And, that's what the letter from him states, you know, since your economic ability, we'll allow you to settle these. We're going to drop three or four. I guess they dropped, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. They dropped six of the eight. That's all I have to say.

     DOUGHERTY: That's funny. Thank you, very much.

     CASKEY: Thank you all, very much. That will conclude the hearings for today.

     DOUGHERTY: 8:30, tomorrow morning.